<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1404</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	11/27/99 11:09:19 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Saturday, November 27 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1404<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
[WEB TECH] Change the IE5 Favorites icon!<BR>
Re: Remulak (Was Re: Where Does the Spinward Marches REALLY Begin?)<BR>
Pbem<BR>
Heroes and Villians pt Nth (was Ming, Barbarela, Remulak)<BR>
Re: Superpowers<BR>
Re: Heroes and Villians pt Nth (was Ming, Barbarela, Remulak)<BR>
Re: Pbem<BR>
Re: Heroes and Villians pt Nth (was Ming, Barbarela, Remulak)<BR>
Re Nukes<BR>
re Nuke Arty<BR>
re Nuke Arty<BR>
Re: Skip Tracing<BR>
Re: Superpowers<BR>
Re: Cold War <BR>
Re: Superpowers<BR>
Re: 747s <BR>
Crypto<BR>
Re: Superpowers<BR>
Volcanoes and Cities<BR>
Re: Re Nukes<BR>
Re: Superpowers<BR>
Re: Superpowers<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 00:38:04 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: [WEB TECH] Change the IE5 Favorites icon!<BR>
<BR>
If your visitors are using IE5, you can set up your web site so<BR>
that if a page is bookmarked, you can cause their Favorites list<BR>
to display an icon of your choice, instead of the default IE<BR>
document icon.<BR>
<BR>
To do this, place a standard Win95/Win98 icon file in the same<BR>
directory as the page itself, and call it favicon.ico.<BR>
<BR>
For example, if you want to do this for a page at<BR>
http://travellerrpg.com/about/index.html, you would put the icon<BR>
file in http://travellerrpg.com/about/favicon.ico.<BR>
<BR>
I found this out by accident at my favorite spam-fighting<BR>
website, http://spamcop.net.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 23:32:52 -0600<BR>
From: Dan Roseberry <rosebee@troi.csw.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Remulak (Was Re: Where Does the Spinward Marches REALLY Begin?)<BR>
<BR>
Josh W. Spencer wrote:<BR>
>Oh really? And IYTU, is Remulak the home of the Coneheads and do you<BR>
>have racial stats for them? And are they considered a Major Race? Or is<BR>
<BR>
>it an old Terran/Solomani colony whose original colonists came from<BR>
France?<BR>
<BR>
>And I thought having Ming the Merciless was BAD....;) ;)<BR>
<BR>
IMTU: Sadly, most of the Cones were wiped out by a minor (barely) human<BR>
race originally native to Mars. They used green painted pressure suits<BR>
and<BR>
carried PGMP-14 variants and sounded just like this......<BR>
<BR>
ACK-ACK RACK ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK<BR>
<BR>
Rumor has it that these aliens, and not the Ancients, were responsible<BR>
for the<BR>
genetic alterations leading to the creation of the Vargr...studies<BR>
continue. As<BR>
for the aliens, they have apparently fled known space in fear of ancient<BR>
<BR>
Solomani country music.....<BR>
<BR>
For further study, read IRIS viddocumentary 347NForn, "Mars Attacks"<BR>
<BR>
Dan Roseberry (plop101) "Don't run. We are your friends" ***ZAP***<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 00:14:05 -0600<BR>
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net><BR>
Subject: Pbem<BR>
<BR>
Okay, I am taking a chance here, but I am trying to start up another 2300 AD<BR>
pbem<BR>
game.<BR>
I figured I would hit the traveller list first and see if anyone is<BR>
interested.<BR>
You dont have to have the game to play, just contact me off list.<BR>
<BR>
Thomas Vickers<BR>
redroach@flex.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 00:52:36 -0600<BR>
From: Dan Roseberry <rosebee@troi.csw.net><BR>
Subject: Heroes and Villians pt Nth (was Ming, Barbarela, Remulak)<BR>
<BR>
This is all way to cool folks! Also, alot more fun than<BR>
worrying about pax Americana, pax Europa, pax<BR>
Australia, pax Burkina Faso or pax  Nth. Please, anyone<BR>
really worried about these things please go pop<BR>
a dialantin pill now. Your brains neuro transmitters<BR>
are obviously on the fritz.<BR>
<BR>
Back to the subject:  We've got two famous Sci-fi<BR>
characters; lets go for 8 more and have something<BR>
available for T5 (if the powers that be want it).<BR>
Any suggestions?<BR>
<BR>
Dan Roseberry (plop101) "Watsa pax anyway?<BR>
Some Kinda Desease?" --Junior Samples BR549<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 19:59:41 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Superpowers<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, "nuclear winter" is rather likely. But not certain.<BR>
><BR>
> The key is *not* the explosive power of the bombs. It's determining how<BR>
> much dust the explosion kicks up (ground and airburst differ *wildly*<BR>
> on this), and what sort of smoke if produced by the fires started by<BR>
> bomb flash and direct blast.<BR>
<BR>
The problem is that most of the simulations, even the "worse" ones,  result<BR>
in _less_ material being injected into the stratosphere than was injected by<BR>
the Taupo explosion, and it is documented that while this was noticeable on<BR>
the other side of the planet for several months, it did not have a huge<BR>
effect on life in the southern hemisphere, and did not last for more than a<BR>
few months.<BR>
<BR>
> These are all *strongly* dependent on season and worse, on targeting of<BR>
> the missiles.<BR>
><BR>
> Last I heard the range of answers generated by more or less reasonable<BR>
> simulations ranged from "it's gonna get *really* chilly" to "yeah, we<BR>
> didn't have a summmer that year and lost a lot of crops" (which<BR>
> happened in 1815, due to a volcano!).<BR>
<BR>
Exactly, though the 1815 explosion was a small one compared to Taupo.<BR>
<BR>
> It's also fairly certain that if either the US or the USSR had cared to<BR>
> launch a suicidal first strike, they had more than enough warheads to<BR>
> wipe out civilization.<BR>
<BR>
Again, I disagree. I estimate there was no more than 20,000 warheads<BR>
available total at any time during the last thirty years, and no more than<BR>
5,000 ICBMs and SLBMs. This is not enough to wipe out civilization. Put a<BR>
serious dent in it, yes, but not wipe it out.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
> "Limited" nuclear war is possible. But nobody considers it *likely*.<BR>
<BR>
Talk to any military scientist and most of them thinkit it _is_ likely that<BR>
at least one limited nuclear war will be fought at some time in the near<BR>
future. The US is unlikely to be involved, except in a "diplomatic"<BR>
capacity.<BR>
<BR>
> It'd require someone in charge with the guts to say "We are going to be<BR>
> beaten. Badly. But there's no point in taking the rest of the world<BR>
> with us." Leaders like that are too rare to count on.<BR>
<BR>
In most likely scenarios there is no way the particpants _can_ take the rest<BR>
of the world with them, so that decision, and the person to make it, is<BR>
irrelevant.<BR>
<BR>
An example is a limited nuclear exchange between Pakistan and India, or even<BR>
India and China, though that would be more damaging . Both _have_ to be<BR>
limited exchanges because the combatants do not have enough warheads for it<BR>
to be anything else.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 00:02:24 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Heroes and Villians pt Nth (was Ming, Barbarela, Remulak)<BR>
<BR>
> Dan Roseberry (plop101) "Watsa pax anyway?<BR>
> Some Kinda Desease?" --Junior Samples BR549<BR>
<BR>
Nah, it's transport industry slang for passengers. <BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 06:03:42 EST<BR>
From: RASFranzen@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Pbem<BR>
<BR>
Hi Thomas,<BR>
I think I have most if not all the GDW MATERIAL and might be ready to play, <BR>
if there is a game and we can agree on the particulars...<BR>
best wishes<BR>
Soenke Franzen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 01:08:05 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heroes and Villians pt Nth (was Ming, Barbarela, Remulak)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Back to the subject:  We've got two famous Sci-fi<BR>
> characters; lets go for 8 more and have something<BR>
> available for T5 (if the powers that be want it).<BR>
> Any suggestions?<BR>
<BR>
Well, they got a lot of the good ones as the "mystery characters" in<BR>
Citizens of the Imperium, and the other similar group I seem to recall<BR>
them doing a while later. <BR>
<BR>
But there's been a lot of SF written since then. I'll nominate a few<BR>
deserving "recent SF" characters, and let you guys do the stats. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Harrington, Honor. Admiral, Royal Manticoran Navy, Admiral, Grayson Navy.<BR>
	Not only is she an interesting character, but we'd "need" to at<BR>
	least place the Manticore system and Grayson somewhere on the<BR>
	fringes of the Imperium. And add Sphinxian Treecats to the list<BR>
	of races. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Naismith, Cordelia. Captain, Betan Survey Service (retired)<BR>
Vorkosigan, Aral. Ex-Regent, Barrayar. Viceroy of Sergar(sp?)<BR>
Vorkosigan, Miles. Imperial Auditor. (see appendix for other honors)<BR>
Vorkosigan, Mark. "Businessman"<BR>
Taura (no last name). Sergeant, Dendarii Free Mercenaries.<BR>
<BR>
(I couldn't resist throwing in Taura)<BR>
<BR>
Oh yeah, throw in the Quaddies from "Falling Free", and Athos from<BR>
"Ethan of Athos" (Athos has to be *at least* an Amber zone). Heck,<BR>
throw in Ethan as an NPC. I want to watch the first time he asks a<BR>
female PC if she'd be willing to donate an ovary. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 02:02:56 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Nukes<BR>
<BR>
>Even in the 3I, nuking a planet "back to the Stone Age" would require a<BR>
>_huge_ fleet investment and probably take several years to be certain.<BR>
><BR>
>To be blunt, nuclear weapons are not as useful or as destructive as good<BR>
>mass drivers, so other than perhaps as tactical (battlefield) weapons and in<BR>
>order to take out Tech7-8 comms nets via EMP, and perhaps to power X-Ray<BR>
>laser mines, that sort of thing, would nukes really be considered useful<BR>
>weapons in the 3I ?<BR>
<BR>
Several things:<BR>
	Terrorist Attacks: High yield, small package, easy to smuggle that way.<BR>
	Infrastructure destruction<BR>
	EMP: Under traveller rules, most tech is subject to EMP even at TL 15<BR>
	Sensor Blinding: H-Bombs are VERY effective at short term blinding of<BR>
		sensors; Orbital Flashing should cover even a massive jump-in<BR>
	Fragmentation of Asteroidal bodies; You can laser a tube, pack with<BR>
		bombs, and scatter the pieces.<BR>
	Subsurface detonations can cause wonderful seizmic effects.<BR>
<BR>
Nukes are one of the best energy for mass demolition tools. In an<BR>
atmosphere, the conversion is particularly effective. And the cost, if the<BR>
production facilities don't have to be kept under as tight a set of<BR>
restrictions as current Terran ones tend to be, aren't particularly<BR>
expensive.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 01:55:09 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: re Nuke Arty<BR>
<BR>
>>And this doesn't count those 8" 2.5KT Artillery Nukes. I've<BR>
>>read the US Army's FM on them (I know, I shouldn't have)... They were field<BR>
>>deployed.<BR>
><BR>
>The atomic howitzer or the mortor?  I've seen stats on both.<BR>
><BR>
To my knowledge, the US Army has only fielded one type of 8" gun since the<BR>
'Nam, an 8" howitzer, in two versions: Towed and SP-Tracked. The Roomie in<BR>
question was dual MOS'd: 8" Special Munitions/Artillery, and Property Issue<BR>
Clerk. (The latter due to a medical condition which removed him from the<BR>
combat arms during sencond term... after he re-upped. It eventually<BR>
resulted in a medical discharge.) All his books mentioned howitzers.<BR>
<BR>
To my knowledge, Field Ordinance comes in 3 flavors of Slug-Thrower:<BR>
Guns: Primarily Direct-fire, breach loaded.<BR>
Howitzers: Indirect Fire, BreachLoaded, low-high angle capable; most<BR>
capable of limited Direct Fire.<BR>
Mortars: Indirect Fire, Mid-high angle. No Direct fire capability,<BR>
typically Muzzel Loaded, and round impact initiated.<BR>
<BR>
Non-Slug throwers, IIRC, are classed into:<BR>
Guided DF missiles<BR>
Guided IF missiles<BR>
MRL's (limited guidance or unguided, AFAIK)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Special Munitions includes CBR of all types, plus ADM and CBM rounds, as<BR>
well as FAE rounds, again IIRC and AFAIK. (CBR Chem/Bio/Rad; ADM: Artillery<BR>
Dropped Mines; CBM: Cluster Bomblet Munitions) From what I gathered, the 8"<BR>
arty has been pulled, since 5" pieces can be airlifted on smaller aircraft.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav: I havent seen much on any of these options outside striker/Striker<BR>
II. MT had some nuke stats.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 02:04:21 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: re Nuke Arty<BR>
<BR>
On 27 Nov 99, at 1:55, William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Mortars: Indirect Fire, Mid-high angle. No Direct fire capability,<BR>
> typically Muzzel Loaded, and round impact initiated.<BR>
<BR>
Unless you're Russian, then they include semi-auto, magazine feed <BR>
direct fire weapons (the Vasilek (?sp) 82mm "mortar").<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 00:20:35 +1100<BR>
From: David Healey <dhealey@giant.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Skip Tracing<BR>
<BR>
On 26-11-99 Ethan Henry said :<BR>
<BR>
<<Snipp stuff>><BR>
<BR>
>Anyway, I'm not totally fond of cinematic super-villans, so <BR>
>maybe that's it. Super or not, even if we have a bunch of<BR>
>SCA-trained blacksmiths on killing sprees, so what if they<BR>
>get the metal? What are they going to build? A railroad?<BR>
>Skyscrapers? The Sydney Opera House? (hm, given a few hundred<BR>
>years, I guess a bunch of criminals could build the Syndey<BR>
>Opera House...)<BR>
<BR>
If they did go ahead and build the Opera House again, they DESERVE to be<BR>
sent to whatever hell they're at.<BR>
<BR>
Dave<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 08:55:51 EST<BR>
From: KenRoney@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Superpowers<BR>
<BR>
The whole concept of a fairly limited nuclear exchange and its aftermath was <BR>
the subject of "Warday", a novel that came out in the 80s.  It did an <BR>
excellent job of showing how the US might look afterwards, and took care to <BR>
expain all of the technical details to the reader.  I can recommend it to <BR>
anyone who's been following this thread.  <BR>
To bring it back to traveller, I used it as background for a Traveller <BR>
scenario based on the concept of the old Morrow Project RPG.  The players <BR>
thought that they were going to wake up out of cold sleep to rebuild the <BR>
typical post apocolypse world, one where they would be the only people around <BR>
with high tech.  Instead, they wound up wandering around the Colorado <BR>
mountains dealing with a recognizable, but very altered American society.  <BR>
They enjoyed it.<BR>
<BR>
Ken <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 00:51:26 +1100<BR>
From: David Healey <dhealey@giant.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Cold War <BR>
<BR>
On 26-11-99, William Hostman said :<BR>
<BR>
>Frankie, the number of weapons deployed was definitely enough to wipe out<BR>
>civilization as we know it. The US had at least one warhead per city of<BR>
>50,000 persons in the Soviet Block (USSR & Warsaw Pact). The USSR had<BR>
>enough warheads for stauration of the same. The total tonnage Per World<BR>
>Capita was 2.5KT per person on the planet (assuming a planetary Pop of 5<BR>
>Billion) [Time Magazine, 1990 or so, similar data published in Defense<BR>
>Weekly in about 87] Since most (75%) of the worlds population lives in<BR>
>concentrations where 2.5KT could easily wipe out more than 20 persons...<BR>
<BR>
Cool.  The original point was total destruction of "...all life on earth<BR>
...".  Societies ?  Sure.  All life ?  Not a hope in Hades.  Nature has<BR>
tried several times and failed.  Nothing we've done up until now can<BR>
duplicate the power of nature.  Nothing, zip, zilch, diddly-squat.  The<BR>
power of St Helens was, what, about 4MT ?  And that affected such a small<BR>
area of the surface of the Earth as to laughable.  In 1000 years time,<BR>
there won't even *be* any evidence for the eruption.<BR>
<BR>
My point is, we have seen displays in the past from good-old Mother Nature<BR>
that make all our purported power look like a joke.  Several species<BR>
die-backs have occured throughout time.  The most notable being at the K-T<BR>
boundary.  Assuming the much-beloved "comet theory", you're talking energy<BR>
far in excess of what we can develop or deploy.  Ergo, I think the argument<BR>
that we can "destroy all life on Earth" is flawed.<BR>
<BR>
>Add to that the non-nuclear armaments: Chem, Bio, and FAE, and the raw<BR>
>destructive capacity that was DEPLOYED was Mutual Assured Destruction of<BR>
>SOCIETIES. When you can drop a 0.5GT Warhead on EVERY production center in<BR>
>the warsaw pact, and the Warsaw Pact can do the same to N. America and<BR>
>Western Europe, that, as far as I am concerned, is enough to end the world<BR>
>as we know it. And this doesn't count those 8" 2.5KT Artillery Nukes. I've<BR>
>read the US Army's FM on them (I know, I shouldn't have)... They were field<BR>
>deployed.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav : At what point does the TL of the society drop as a result of<BR>
population loss ?  Presumably some systems develop (biological) viruses and<BR>
greeblies that kills lots of introduced species, including sophonts.  Ditto<BR>
wars.  How much of your populace do you have to lose before their way of<BR>
life becomes irretrievably disrupted and they drop in TL ?<BR>
<BR>
Dave<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 01:02:27 +1100<BR>
From: David Healey <dhealey@giant.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Superpowers<BR>
<BR>
On 26-11-99, Kyle Schuant said :<BR>
<BR>
<<Snippage ocurred fore and aft>><BR>
<BR>
>You can't compare the explosion of lots of nukes with<BR>
>the explosion of a volcano. A volcano does not have a<BR>
>3million centigrade fireball, nor deadly radiation.<BR>
>Its blast is often supersonic, but it doesn't usually<BR>
>explode in the middle of a city (disaster movies<BR>
>notwithstanding). Also, one big bang doesn't make as<BR>
>much dust (for nuclear winters) as lots of "little"<BR>
>bangs. Lots of little ones cause more damage; this is<BR>
>the principle of the frag grenade.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, nice try, but wrong.  True, yer average volcanic eruption doesn't get<BR>
up to the temperatures found in nuclear detonation (which, BTW, only get to<BR>
a couple of thousand degrees Kelvin).  It does, however, emit large doses<BR>
of radiation, depending on eruption type.  Even better, it vents all sorts<BR>
of lovely gasses which if manufactured by man would be outlawed.  Rarely do<BR>
volcanoes in the middle of a city go off because humans are not so totally<BR>
moronic so as to build on the flanks of too many active hilltops.  When<BR>
they have, they've discovered their mistake and not lived to tell of it.<BR>
Eruptions ala 'Volcano' are historically rare.  However, can you say<BR>
Pompeii ?  It doesn't have to spew forth lava to be deadly.<BR>
<BR>
As for spitting up ash, wrong again.  We find a fair few ash layers in<BR>
sedimentary rocks that must have been many, many metres thick when they<BR>
were laid.  Often, we find the same evidence from the same eruption<BR>
hundreds of kilometers from the eruption point itself.  One eruption in<BR>
recent history altered the climate across the globe.  Krakatua.  One single<BR>
eruption.  Heard as far away as Sydney in Australia where the Governor<BR>
thought Russian warships were bombarding his coastal defences.  Show me a<BR>
nuke that can do that !<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav : Imagine a system where the populace of the mainworld is sitting on<BR>
the flanks of a volcano they think is extinct.  Say, Olympus Mons on Mars.<BR>
Big bugger.  What are they gonna do when it appears that it isn't extinct ?<BR>
 How do up and move millions of people, even in a high TL Third Imperium ?<BR>
Imagine the PC's fighting people off because they're the last ship out<BR>
after all the nobles' yachts and Megacorps freighters have left.  Ooh,<BR>
that'd be evil.<BR>
<BR>
Dave<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 08:11:56 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 747s <BR>
<BR>
>>>At a guess, even a 747 must be 50dT.<BR>
>><BR>
>> The current US Space Shuttle is pretty close in size to a Traveller<BR>
Shuttle <BR>
>>(ie. 95 DTons), so a little extrapolation puts a 747 (used to carry the <BR>
>>Shuttle around) firmly in the 180+ DTon range.<BR>
><BR>
>The maximum take off weight of a 747 is from 315 to 365 metric tons.<BR>
<BR>
dT = Displacement Tons, which is not the same thing as weight.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 10:50:01 -0500<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Crypto<BR>
<BR>
Was Written:<BR>
<BR>
>> a) the code book is bigger than the message (since you have<BR>
>>    a substitution table for each letter.)<BR>
>><BR>
>> b) only people with a complete code book can use the code.<BR>
>><BR>
>> c) how do you transmit and secure the code book?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Snip<BR>
<BR>
>The problem is that "one-time pads" is that they are *not* suitable for<BR>
>this sort of application. They work great for point to point<BR>
>communications, because you only have to make sure that the two points<BR>
>involved get their "pads" securely.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Response:<BR>
<BR>
I'm not really all that familiar with cryptography but would the following<BR>
work:<BR>
<BR>
Each "branch office" would receive at scheduled periods a unique code which<BR>
consists of two tables of simple equations whose results are non-repeating<BR>
decimals i.e., like Pi?.   Each table would be sent by separate secure<BR>
messenger.  Three digit blocks in the first decimal (from the first table)<BR>
starting at a value determined by the first eight digits of a second decimal<BR>
(from the second table) represent letters, numbers and other symbols deemed<BR>
necessary.  Each line of the message resets in the sequence in the first<BR>
decimal the value of the next eight digits in the second decimal and thus<BR>
resets for the required symbols. Repeat the procedure for each following<BR>
line.   Each day/selected time period or even, for the truly paranoid, new<BR>
message a new pair of decimals are used.<BR>
<BR>
Even if individual messages or even the code tables for a single branch for<BR>
a specific time period are compromised,  the larger system is still secure.<BR>
<BR>
The home office would originate and have all the keys.  It thus would be the<BR>
major security risk.<BR>
<BR>
Just an idea for a relatively low tech rather unsophisticated message system<BR>
which doubtlessly has sufficient flaws for ingenious PCs to exploit.<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 07:37:38<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Superpowers<BR>
<BR>
At 01:02 AM 11/28/1999 +1100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Rarely do<BR>
>volcanoes in the middle of a city go off because humans are not so totally<BR>
>moronic so as to build on the flanks of too many active hilltops.  When<BR>
>they have, they've discovered their mistake and not lived to tell of it.<BR>
<BR>
Ever visited Naples?  There's also a city in Japan (sawit on the Discovery<BR>
Channel yesterday, can't remember the name) that sits right under a very<BR>
active volcano.. the schools have eruption drills!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 11:53:01 -0500<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Volcanoes and Cities<BR>
<BR>
Was Writ:<BR>
<BR>
>Ever visited Naples?  There's also a city in Japan (sawit on the Discovery<BR>
>Channel yesterday, can't remember the name) that sits right under a very<BR>
>active volcano.. the schools have eruption drills!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Don't forget Mount Ranier and Mount Shasta as they were the expected<BR>
candidates before St. Helens blew.  By the way you want to see what calderas<BR>
looks like in the lower 48 check out the pair in the Jemez Mountains of<BR>
Northern New Mexico.  The larger of the two lies partially over the first<BR>
and if memory serves correctly has a measured crater over 7 klicks across.<BR>
I have a geologic map of the area in a box some where.  There are pumice<BR>
beds over 50 feet thick some miles distant from the rim.  When it blew...<BR>
well lets just say that the future St. Helens eruption of recent memory was<BR>
a popcorn fart by comparison.  There is also a rather large caldera in the<BR>
Med whose last explosion is said to be tied to the Atlantis myths.<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 09:33:55 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Nukes<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Even in the 3I, nuking a planet "back to the Stone Age" would require a<BR>
>>_huge_ fleet investment and probably take several years to be certain.<BR>
>><BR>
>>To be blunt, nuclear weapons are not as useful or as destructive as good<BR>
>>mass drivers, so other than perhaps as tactical (battlefield) weapons and in<BR>
>>order to take out Tech7-8 comms nets via EMP, and perhaps to power X-Ray<BR>
>>laser mines, that sort of thing, would nukes really be considered useful<BR>
>>weapons in the 3I ?<BR>
><BR>
> Several things:<BR>
>         Terrorist Attacks: High yield, small package, easy to smuggle<BR>
                             that way.<BR>
>         Infrastructure destruction<BR>
>         EMP: Under traveller rules, most tech is subject to EMP even at TL 15<BR>
>         Sensor Blinding: H-Bombs are VERY effective at short term blinding of<BR>
>                 sensors; Orbital Flashing should cover even a massive jump-in<BR>
>         Fragmentation of Asteroidal bodies; You can laser a tube, pack with<BR>
>                 bombs, and scatter the pieces.<BR>
>         Subsurface detonations can cause wonderful seizmic effects.<BR>
><BR>
> Nukes are one of the best energy for mass demolition tools. In an<BR>
> atmosphere, the conversion is particularly effective. And the cost, if the<BR>
> production facilities don't have to be kept under as tight a set of<BR>
> restrictions as current Terran ones tend to be, aren't particularly<BR>
> expensive.<BR>
<BR>
Also, you can create *shaped charge* nukes. So far, this is more of a<BR>
theoretical possibility than a practical one. But much the same<BR>
techniques are used in "radiation management" in multi-stage weapons<BR>
(fission triggered fusion bombs, and fission-fusion-fission "enhanced<BR>
yield" bombs). <BR>
<BR>
Personally, I can only see two uses for this. *Massive* engineering<BR>
projects and "bunker busters" for deep meson sites. And for the later,<BR>
you'd probably have to use multiple blasts. Which means some poor Corps<BR>
of Engineers slobs get to climb into a *fresh* blast crater to emplace<BR>
the second (third, fourth, etc) charges. Nuke damper would help by<BR>
suppressing the nuclear radiation, but those craters are gonna be<BR>
rather warm *thermally*. <BR>
<BR>
Oh, wait, there's a third use. A sort of Orion-style propulsion for<BR>
moving asteroids. But they may be too expensive for that.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 09:44:07 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Superpowers<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> The whole concept of a fairly limited nuclear exchange and its aftermath was <BR>
> the subject of "Warday", a novel that came out in the 80s.  It did an <BR>
> excellent job of showing how the US might look afterwards, and took care to <BR>
> expain all of the technical details to the reader.  I can recommend it to <BR>
> anyone who's been following this thread.  <BR>
> To bring it back to traveller, I used it as background for a Traveller <BR>
> scenario based on the concept of the old Morrow Project RPG.  The players <BR>
> thought that they were going to wake up out of cold sleep to rebuild the <BR>
> typical post apocolypse world, one where they would be the only people <BR>
> around with high tech.  Instead, they wound up wandering around the Colorado <BR>
> mountains dealing with a recognizable, but very altered American society.  <BR>
> They enjoyed it.<BR>
<BR>
That reminds me of something we've been discussing in another thread.<BR>
Ortillery, specifically a Thor style orbital system.<BR>
<BR>
A friend had been playing Morrow Project, and was getting ready to GM<BR>
it. He wanted something leftover that'd keep the players on their toes.<BR>
I would up helping him draw up the "parameters" for a still functional<BR>
(or at least *partially* functional) Thor system. And luckily this was<BR>
about the time Scientific American did an article that included a color<BR>
photo of several ICBM warheads coming down at Kwajalein Atoll. I showed<BR>
him that and explained that the Thor projectiles should look pretty<BR>
much the same (bright white *straight* lines from the sky to the<BR>
target) and between their speed and persistence of vision effects, we<BR>
both figured that to the PCs it'd look like some sort of monster beam<BR>
weapon. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 10:25:52 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Superpowers<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 01:02 AM 11/28/1999 +1100, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Rarely do<BR>
>>volcanoes in the middle of a city go off because humans are not so totally<BR>
>>moronic so as to build on the flanks of too many active hilltops.  When<BR>
>>they have, they've discovered their mistake and not lived to tell of it.<BR>
><BR>
> Ever visited Naples?  There's also a city in Japan (sawit on the Discovery<BR>
> Channel yesterday, can't remember the name) that sits right under a very<BR>
> active volcano.. the schools have eruption drills!<BR>
<BR>
Right here in Portland, we've got an "extinct" volcano (Mount Tabor)<BR>
pretty much in the middle of town. It's pretty well overgrown (grass,<BR>
trees) and they blockedup the caves (some lava tube segments?) *years*<BR>
ago. <BR>
<BR>
But if it ever *did* get active again, we'd be in a *world* of trouble.<BR>
Most of Portland's water supply comes from a "reserve" on the slopes of<BR>
Mt. Hood (another "extinct" volcano, only it still has hot springs, and<BR>
the lava dome is warm enough to melt snow in places! Climbers often<BR>
pause for a rest there because its warm...). <BR>
<BR>
The pipes come up at Mt. Tabor and fill several *big* reserviors at<BR>
various levels on the slopes. And from there, it's distributed to the<BR>
rest of the city.<BR>
<BR>
So if Mt. Tabor became active, there goes our water supply. And no,<BR>
*don't* suggest drinking the Willamette or Columbia Rivers. We aren't<BR>
set up for the required purification. <BR>
<BR>
If Mt *Hood* goes active, the only good thing is that the prevailing<BR>
winds blow *east* away from town. But we'd still lose our water supply.<BR>
<BR>
And please keep in mind that there are different *kinds* of volcanos.<BR>
Ones like Vesuvius (the one that got Pompei and Herculaneum) and Mt.<BR>
St. Helens don't do lava except in the actual crater. The lava isn't<BR>
fluid enough to flow very far. Instead you get ash clouds burying the<BR>
surrounding areas in meters of ash, and the nearby spots have to worry<BR>
about pyroclastic flows. <BR>
<BR>
Other volcanos are like the ones in Hawaii or Iceland. the lava is very<BR>
fluid, and you get large flows.<BR>
<BR>
Frankly, I'll take either over the *third* "type". That's where you get<BR>
massive cracks in the crust and *thick* flows of lava covering<BR>
*thousands* of square miles. That's what formed much of Central and<BR>
Eastern Washington/Oregon and a fair chunk of Idaho. <BR>
<BR>
Just to give you an idea of the *scale* involved, some of the basalt<BR>
layers are *hundreds* of feet thick. And the total thickness of the<BR>
various layers is *thousands* of feet. <BR>
<BR>
Have a geologist discover that a populated region of a planet is going<BR>
to undergo *that* and watch the fun. Massive quakes, and then the<BR>
ground starts cracking into wide fissures, *miles* long, out of which<BR>
lava flows as fast (if not faster) than any lava flow you've seen films<BR>
of from Iceland or Hawaii. <BR>
<BR>
Well, there goes the neighborhood. <BR>
<BR>
And *here* is an adventure seed. These sorts of magma flows create<BR>
massive mineral deposits (stuff like the Idaho copper and silver mines<BR>
or the Comstock Lode in Colorado(?)). They also tend to be ongoing for<BR>
hundreds or more likely *thosands* of years.<BR>
<BR>
So picture someone getting the idea of building mining "platforms" that<BR>
can float on the lava, and use CG to cross the solid stuff. Equipped to<BR>
sample the fresh lava and *pump* (scoop?) it aboard for processing when<BR>
you find flows rich in valuable minerals. <BR>
<BR>
Some may even "drill" into the flows to find the internal "pools" or<BR>
the magma chambers where the *really* good stuff forms. <BR>
<BR>
Just imagine the possibilities. Imagine the profits. Imagine the things<BR>
that can go wrong. With or without "help". <BR>
<BR>
For an even *more* extreme version of this, you need a *young* planet.<BR>
Well under a billion years. Just after (most) of the "bombardment by<BR>
planetesmals is over. One where the surface is blocks of lighter<BR>
crustal material floating on top of molten magma. The blocks haven't<BR>
really consolidated, and new ones form as bubbles of lighter material<BR>
work their way up from the deeper areas. <BR>
<BR>
You've at least got solid (if rather hot!) "bases" to work from. On the<BR>
downside, there's *no* oxygen, and the air is going to be the most<BR>
godawful mix of stuff, including lots of sulfur oxides and the like. <BR>
<BR>
This is a *prime* location because first, the planet is still<BR>
seperating into crust, magma, and core. The mix of elements is more<BR>
uniform, though there will still be large chunks of stuff that *had*<BR>
differentiated before impact. But more importantly, because it's so<BR>
young, the planet still has most of its initial supply of<BR>
radioisotopes. Definitely worth the trouble to seperate out of the<BR>
molten rock, even if they *are* more uniformly distributed.<BR>
<BR>
Even better would be trying to harvest radio-isotopes from the<BR>
planetary nebula of a system wuile it was forming. But that's *really*<BR>
dangerous (such nebulas would resemble a cross between a *Star Trek*<BR>
"nebula" and a *Star Wars* "asteroid field". Ouch! And besides, you'd<BR>
have to melt the rock yourself. :-)<BR>
<BR>
ps. I gotta say it before somebody else does. Do you suppose that these<BR>
guys "mining" lava/magma would be called "soft rock miners"? :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1404<BR>
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